#27 art talk – we present the ‘Keramik Kunst Museum – Stiftung Hannelore Seiffert’ (pt.1)

Introduction to the Art Podcast

Verena Feldbausch: We talk about art at art talk, the art podcast from SaarLorLux. We meet curators and artists where they are currently exhibiting. Discover contemporary art and extraordinary art spaces in our region with us. Be part of gallery talks, exhibition openings, and finissages. You can listen to art talk wherever there are podcasts. Hello and welcome to a new episode of art talk SaarLorLux. Today we are talking about an art form that has long been underestimated, namely ceramic art. Ceramic art has been increasingly recognized in the contemporary art world since the 1990s to 2000s, even if it still struggles with prejudice and is not always treated equally, such as painting or installation. Our guest today is Hannelore Seiffert. She is a collector, supporter, and expert in international ceramic art. And in 2023, she donated a significant part of her collection to the Keramik Kunst Museum Neunkirchen. And as there is a lot to talk about contemporary ceramic art, I have divided the episode into two parts. Now I hope you enjoy listening to the first part. Your Verena Feldbausch.

Verena Feldbausch: Ms. Seiffert, it’s great that you have time to talk to me today. How did your love of ceramics begin?

Hannelore Seiffert: Yes, I would say quite classic. I was already in a somewhat advanced stage of life and then saw an exhibition. And then I thought, that’s actually quite nice too, ceramics, give it a try. I asked the artist who happened to be there. And then she said, yes, you can come to Dillingen every week, I run courses. I did it, then started the classic way with the thumb bowl and so on. And then, of course, I became more interested in the subject matter. I bought books and went to markets first. And then it got deeper and deeper. The more I knew names or something, the more I went to exhibitions. And here, we have a ceramics center, Höhr-Grenzhausen is nearby, where there is an excellent museum. And yes, I got used to it more and more and then I always bought spontaneously, when I somehow found a piece that I particularly liked or thought I would like to have and watch it all the time.

Fascination with Contemporary Unique Ceramics

Verena Feldbausch: What fascinated you in particular about contemporary unique ceramics? So in contrast to antique ceramics or design objects?

Hannelore Seiffert: I have always been interested in art, even as a young person, but also always or almost only in contemporary art. So that was my favorite place to go. And the other things just happened. The education, that’s what you get. And with the ceramics, I had no idea what was there before. In the sense of extraordinary. We knew that there was a time when baroque harnesses were made and things like that. But I always found, because I did it myself, more interesting what happens in my time. How people work, what they do, why they do it. And above all, I was initially fascinated by the absolute diversity of materials and expressions. And working with ceramics is very, very diverse. Far more diverse than we know or normally imagine. And yes, I found that interesting.

From Fascination to Conscious Collecting

Verena Feldbausch: When did the fascination turn into a conscious collecting activity? So was there a point at which you said, now I’m seriously collecting?

Hannelore Seiffert: That’s difficult to say. So there is one point where I was accepted or asked by the International Ceramic Society. AIC-ICA, a very special organization that only exists in the art world for ceramics. Namely, where the world’s best ceramic artists are connected. Regardless of the origin. From Africa, from China, from Japan, from America, from Europe anyway. And word had gotten around here, at least in Germany and other European countries, that there’s one who always buys. And my name was already known a bit anyway. And then, of course, I came across these increasingly high-quality works and became aware of them and then went there. And yes, and then they said at the AIC that it would be good if she was with us. So for me, I was quite fascinated, and it was a great honor to be asked there as well. And there are about 900 ceramists in this worldwide organization. And another 100 or so people who are part of it. Museum directors and also critics, people who write about it and so on. And a few collectors. Last year, there were nine worldwide. And I was the only German to be accepted into the AIC.

Verena Feldbausch: What does AIC stand for?

Hannelore Seiffert: AIC-ICA is the French abbreviation for International Academy of Ceramics.

Ceramics as an Artistic Medium

Verena Feldbausch: Thank you. Exactly, now we come to the subject of ceramics as an international art form. Let’s talk about the material, i.e., clay, earth, fire. What makes ceramics so special to you as an artistic medium?

Hannelore Seiffert: So as an artistic medium, above all the diversity, the expressiveness, which is also determined by the material. It ranges from the finest porcelain to really coarse clay, which even then still has admixtures and can be quite rough on the surface. And there is so much going on in this diversity. And I can really confirm this from my own experience. If you have a piece like that in your hand and you don’t have an order or something and then you start kneading it. And that’s where you get inspired. And things really come about that you had no idea you had in your hands, in your head, or otherwise. So I find that very exciting. And of course, the pieces you see here are all absolutely exquisite pieces by outstanding artists, many members of the AIC. And, of course, they know exactly how to handle things. But despite all this. So I have wafer-thin pieces and really thick lumps.

International Ceramics Scene and Regional Differences

Verena Feldbausch: So your collection includes works from various countries. Japan, USA, Europe. How do you experience the international contemporary ceramics scene? Are there regional differences?

Hannelore Seiffert: Definitely. First of all, there are regional differences in that in Africa, for example, folk art still predominates. Although it is also interpreted in a very modern way by some. Then in China, there is a completely different relationship with ceramics. Ceramics play a very important role here. And special processes, for example, celadon or special materials. There is a porcelain that shimmers almost bluish when it is fired. And in Europe, it is more diverse, but still. So it’s not like I look at a piece and could say it could be from such and such a country. But you can see, yes, it looks European. Another thing that always strikes me is that South Korea, for example, but also all the Far Eastern pieces that I have, are of a very high quality in terms of elaboration. And the pieces sometimes look simple, plain. But then, if you take a closer look, they have so much sophistication and so much craftsmanship that you think it can’t be that you do it with your hands.

Unique Ceramics vs. Functional Objects

Verena Feldbausch: Many people think of ceramics as something functional. A cup, a vase. But unique ceramics is art. What distinguishes a work of art made of clay from a utility object?

Hannelore Seiffert: Yes, well, first of all, the artworks are simply impractical to use. But I have at least 80 pieces in use in my household, I’ve estimated that they are made of clay and have a very special expression, but which are made for what I use them for. Cans and plates or dishes too. I have a lot of vases that are very unusual and that I simply love and that you can’t buy like that. Where you can see it’s a bit different.

Donation to the Keramik Kunst Museum Neunkirchen

Verena Feldbausch: In 2023, you decided to donate part of your collection to the Ceramic Art Museum, Neunkirchen, Hannelore Seiffert Foundation. What prompted you to take this step?

Hannelore Seiffert: That’s a nice question. It was Ms. Nicole Nix-Hauck, the director here at the Keramik Kunst Museum, who first persuaded me to take this step. We’ve known each other for a long time, and I once had two exhibitions of my ceramics up here in the gallery. The first one was really, really well frequented, and the second one fell victim to Corona for the most part. But she knew my work, and she was often at my house. And one day she casually said, have you ever thought about what you’re going to do with your things? Could you imagine putting something like this in a museum or donating it? And then I thought, no way. Slept over it once, and the next morning. That’s it. Because I had already given individual pieces to certain museums before, five or six pieces. I have also had exhibitions with my collection in other museums, on a smaller scale, of course. And then I always left pieces. And after six or eight weeks, they were in the depot. And that’s where they are now, just in case the artist who made this piece has an exhibition of his or her own. They’ll be shown again, but that’s it. And I think that this artistry, this love and dedication, and this skill simply doesn’t deserve it. If they are made, then they should also be able to be seen. And that was it for me, so I thought, sure, that’s it. And I’ve lived in Saarland for 50 years. A great time in Neunkirchen. So here the house is very good, the museum and upstairs the galleries and so on. And then I thought, yes, I don’t live far away. I can always see what my little darlings are up to and how they are doing. Have a little chat. And yes, and I say, yes, that’s the idea. And then the presentation turned out great.

Verena Feldbausch: Yes. The next step was that a friend of yours also made another generous donation.

Hannelore Seiffert: It wasn’t a friend of mine. I didn’t even know the lady before. And she donated a huge amount of money, by my standards. That was 100,000 euros.

Verena Feldbausch: That’s amazing.

Hannelore Seiffert: And that, of course, made a completely different dimension of presentation possible.

Verena Feldbausch: So that means the first step was, you said, I’m prepared to give up part of my collection. And the second part was that a generous donor was found again, who made the space possible, who made the exhibition space possible. Because there are, I think, 300 square meters here, right?

Hannelore Seiffert: Yes, a little over 300 square meters. And I had always said that I wouldn’t like to have display cabinets. I also leave things open at home. And I know personally that it’s important to be able to get up close. Hands behind your back, of course. So you can take a closer look at things. And with showcases, you always have a certain distance. This extremely generous donor was probably found by Mr. Linnebacher, who also led a lot of the conversion work here. He encouraged her to donate.

Selection of Works and Presentation

Verena Feldbausch: Which works did you select and according to which criteria?

Hannelore Seiffert: Well, that’s how we did it. People from the museum, so Ms. Nix-Hauck and someone else, went through the house and said, we would like to have this and this and this and this. And I had originally thought of a number between 100 and 200. And then they wrote little notes, like 3, 42, and so on. And suddenly we had over 400 pieces. And I thought that was a bit steep. Then I thought, oh, there’s nothing left. I have to say that I had about 1200 pieces in my house at the time. So it wasn’t that dangerous.

Verena Feldbausch: And then you actually donated the 400 pieces to the museum.

Hannelore Seiffert: Yes, so then this space here was rebuilt. The rooms here were used quite differently. Lighting was created, and then this wonderful furniture, on which the items can be presented, in all possible variations. We then moved and so on, until we thought, oh, that’s how it could be. And on the walls, so great. And then we brought 200 pieces here. And I think there are 260 pieces here at the moment. And Ms. Nix-Hauck designed the presentation together with Dr. Wilhelmus. You can imagine the amount of stuff I had to deal with, and even though I had remodeled my house twice, it was still very, very, very full. So I was used to the pieces being quite close together. And I know from Ms. Nix-Hauck in particular that she attaches great importance to this, that each piece has its own individual space where it can be viewed on its own. And then I had to leave, I always thought, oh, what else can I put there! Yes, but then of course I found it all the more beautiful. It is, so if you look, the presentation is great. This was then also structured a little in terms of content, faces, figurative works, and so on.

Collaboration with the Museum and Catalogues

Verena Feldbausch: Yes, exactly, that’s actually my next question. How was the collaboration with the museum? So you’ve already explained that a bit. Is there a catalogue for the donation, and are the exhibits regularly exchanged? Because you say there are now 260 or so presented, but you have given over 400. What is the approach?

Hannelore Seiffert: Yes, my inner condition was that nothing should go into the depot. And we have this room here with 300 square meters, which is now occupied by about 260 pieces. And that is wonderful. You can see every single piece. I still have about 170 pieces at home. But now we’ve decided that the rest will definitely come here too. There may be opportunities to expand the space here so that something can be added. And so we will be doing this as part of a larger campaign to replace a larger proportion, i.e., at least 150 pieces. So that’s already a big change. And this change is also announced separately. And I estimate that you will have to close here for at least a week or two for the conversion.

Verena Feldbausch: And is a catalogue planned?

Hannelore Seiffert: We already had catalogues for the first exhibition and for the second one, which wasn’t as busy because it was right at the beginning of 2020 when Corona arrived. There are two catalogues that are excellently photographed and are available. So most of the pieces are in these books.

Verena Feldbausch: Exactly, these were two catalogues from the exhibitions that have already taken place in the Stadtgalerie Neunkirchen.

Trends in Ceramic Art

Verena Feldbausch: Where is ceramic art heading at the moment? Do you see new trends, perhaps socially or politically?

Hannelore Seiffert: Well, for the last three years, I’ve always slapped my fingers when I go somewhere. I don’t go to exhibitions that often anymore, it’s far too dangerous. But I get a lot of written material and the Neue Keramik and so on, ceramic magazines. And I see a tendency towards even greater abstraction on the one hand, towards a different colorfulness, also an even greater colorfulness. And these more contemplative pieces, I haven’t noticed them so much yet. So I’m really noticing that very abstract and wild shapes in unusual colors.

Verena Feldbausch: Were there any social or political developments that you observed?

Hannelore Seiffert: I can’t say that’s in response to anything. It is also different on every continent. So especially in China, they invite a lot of people. For example, there is a city called Jingdezhen, where a large number of guests from all over the world are invited every year. They work there and also leave things there and exhibit them. And ceramics have a completely different significance here. Great importance is also attached to classic materials, classic colors, celadon, or something like that. And when people come here, a lot of people from Germany are invited again, they can work in their own way, as well as emulate or naturally translate this into their own possibilities, but do something in that style. And I find that very exciting, very, very stimulating.

Conclusion and Outlook

Verena Feldbausch: Now you’ve learned quite a lot about the collector Hannelore Seiffert and how she came to contemporary ceramic art. And in the next episode, we will discuss very specific pieces from her collection. And as always, you can find photos of the works discussed on my blog. And the link to it can be found in the show notes. I’m already looking forward to the next time Hannelore Seiffert tells us how she found her favorite pieces. This episode could be produced thanks to the support of the Saarland Ministry of Education and Culture. Thank you very much for this. And thank you for listening, and I’m already looking forward to the second part of our interview with Hannelore Seiffert. See you soon, Verena Feldbausch. Did you like art talk? Then leave 5 stars and recommend us to your friends. You can find more information about the podcast in the show notes and in our blog. Tune in again when it says: We talk about art at art talk, the art podcast from SaarLorLux.